Mamapalooza:: Breastfeeding 101 with International Board Certified Lactation Consultant, Sunayana Weber, of It's More Than Milk

Kelsy: 00:00:00

I am so happy to introduce today's guest as her expertise is something that

2

: 00:00:03

so many friends and family members close

to me have struggled with and something

3

: 00:00:06

that I have absolutely no experience with.

4

: 00:00:08

She's an international board certified

lactation consultant and mother of two.

5

: 00:00:12

Her own difficult breastfeeding journey

resulted in a passion for lactation

6

: 00:00:15

advocacy and support her practice.

7

: 00:00:17

It's more than Milk provides holistic,

lactation care focused on informing,

8

: 00:00:21

supporting, and empowering families.

9

: 00:00:23

She and her team work to help

families meet their lactation goals

10

: 00:00:25

through one-on-one consultations,

peer groups, and parent education.

11

: 00:00:29

She wants to empower all

families encountering lactation

12

: 00:00:32

struggles with evidence-based,

compassionate, and support.

13

: 00:00:35

So, Sina . Welcome to

Wellness Big Sis, the Pod.

14

: 00:00:38

Sunayana: Thank you.

15

: 00:00:38

Thank you for having me.

16

: 00:00:39

I'm excited to be here.

17

: 00:00:40

Kelsy: So many of the moms that I asked

about this and, and just questions

18

: 00:00:45

they had, I was so surprised how many

veteran moms as I like to call it.

19

: 00:00:48

Yes.

20

: 00:00:48

Like second, third, fourth, you know?

21

: 00:00:50

Yes.

22

: 00:00:50

Fifth time moms had the most in

depth questions, so I know this is

23

: 00:00:54

gonna be helpful for so many people.

24

: 00:00:56

Good new moms and veteran moms.

25

: 00:00:58

Alike.

26

: 00:00:58

. Sunayana: Exactly.

27

: 00:00:59

Yeah.

28

: 00:00:59

Sometimes I'll see moms with,

you know, second, third, or

29

: 00:01:02

fourth babies and they're like.

30

: 00:01:03

This didn't happen last time.

31

: 00:01:04

And it's important to remember , for any

veteran moms listening, that every baby

32

: 00:01:08

in every journey is going to be different.

33

: 00:01:10

Even if the first time you knocked it

outta the park and it was easy peasy the

34

: 00:01:14

second time could throw you for a loop.

35

: 00:01:16

Definitely.

36

: 00:01:16

But that's what I'm here for.

37

: 00:01:17

Kelsy: So let's start with what are some

of the most common challenges you help

38

: 00:01:20

families overcome when it comes to their

journeys with feeding as new parents?

39

: 00:01:23

Sunayana: That's a really great question.

40

: 00:01:25

So.

41

: 00:01:25

I wanna touch on a really big one.

42

: 00:01:27

And so the big thing that I've been

hearing a lot from my clients lately

43

: 00:01:31

is this perceived low milk supply.

44

: 00:01:33

And I say, yes, some people truly do have

low milk supply for a variety of reasons,

45

: 00:01:38

but for most of the clients I work with,

they will get onto social media and they

46

: 00:01:42

will see these refrigerators and freezers,

chockfull of milk, and they're like,

47

: 00:01:46

well, I need to have that before I go

back to work in 12 weeks or, or whatever.

48

: 00:01:51

But.

49

: 00:01:51

Really, you don't need

to have all of that.

50

: 00:01:54

The people that show that out there,

that's great for them, but that's not

51

: 00:01:58

often the reality for most of the clients

I work with, I was a just enougher.

52

: 00:02:01

Mm-hmm.

53

: 00:02:02

Where I made everything my baby

needed, maybe a little bit extra,

54

: 00:02:05

but certainly not, you know, the

thousands of ounces in the freezer.

55

: 00:02:08

But I also think that when it's 3:00 AM

and we're scrolling through Instagram

56

: 00:02:12

and we see this, it's easy to kind of

get in our own heads and be like, oh.

57

: 00:02:17

This is a me thing.

58

: 00:02:18

I'm just not making enough for my baby.

59

: 00:02:20

I need to make more.

60

: 00:02:21

And then moms will start

to often pump extra.

61

: 00:02:24

And then they may actually give

themselves an oversupply, which

62

: 00:02:28

is, a blessing and a curse.

63

: 00:02:29

It's lovely to have lots of milk,

but then there's a whole host of

64

: 00:02:32

issues that can come along with it.

65

: 00:02:33

So I think milk supply is the

one that everybody worries about,

66

: 00:02:37

even if you've done this before.

67

: 00:02:39

And so it's one of those things

where it's sometimes it's like, well.

68

: 00:02:42

We can, we're gonna have to

wait and see what your body

69

: 00:02:45

does once your baby is here.

70

: 00:02:46

But.

71

: 00:02:46

Other times it can be very helpful

to work with somebody like me an

72

: 00:02:50

I-B-C-L-C prenatally to discuss health

history, to figure out , if there's

73

: 00:02:54

any factors in play that could impact

milk supply, and then plan for those or

74

: 00:02:59

have contingency plans in place just.

75

: 00:03:01

If that happens, we'll know what's going

on, we'll know how to kind of hone in

76

: 00:03:06

the focus of our visits, all of that.

77

: 00:03:08

Kelsy: I didn't even think about

the comparison piece of it too.

78

: 00:03:10

Again, I'm not, I haven't

touched this realm at all.

79

: 00:03:12

Right.

80

: 00:03:13

But comparison can be such a, a

thief of joy for all aspects of life.

81

: 00:03:16

Yes.

82

: 00:03:16

And I did not even think

about the comparison thing.

83

: 00:03:19

Adding to the challenges of

breastfeeding and supply levels?

84

: 00:03:22

Oh

85

: 00:03:22

Sunayana: yeah, yeah, for sure.

86

: 00:03:23

And again, I get it, I've been there,

I've been at three in the morning and I

87

: 00:03:28

can't get my baby to latch or you know,

he's screaming, my boob is leaking.

88

: 00:03:31

You know, all of that.

89

: 00:03:32

I've been there.

90

: 00:03:33

It's hard, but it's also really easy

to get yourself spun up about something

91

: 00:03:37

that may not necessarily be an issue.

92

: 00:03:39

Kelsy: So is oversupply usually

more of the issue or under supply?

93

: 00:03:44

I seen both.

94

: 00:03:44

How does, how do you tell because you said

perceived, and I like that you used the

95

: 00:03:47

word like perceived undersupply or Yes.

96

: 00:03:49

Or low supply.

97

: 00:03:51

Yes.

98

: 00:03:51

When it comes to comparison, but

what is that, that metric and,

99

: 00:03:54

and which do you see more of?

100

: 00:03:56

I guess

101

: 00:03:56

Sunayana: so in the early days,

the best way, you know, other than.

102

: 00:04:00

Doing a weight feeding, parents usually

are like, oh, we're gonna buy a scale.

103

: 00:04:04

Do not buy a scale.

104

: 00:04:05

You will drive yourself crazy

because the weights can fluctuate

105

: 00:04:08

too much from feeding to feeding

and potentially even day to day.

106

: 00:04:11

The scales I have and that we use

here are sensitive to two grams

107

: 00:04:15

and it's like an $1,800 scale.

108

: 00:04:17

So it's usually not in

the budget for most.

109

: 00:04:19

People, especially after having a baby.

110

: 00:04:21

But to answer your question I would

say the best way to know that your

111

: 00:04:24

baby is getting enough and that

they're doing what they need to do

112

: 00:04:26

is to monitor your baby's diapers

in the first at least week of life.

113

: 00:04:31

And so a good rule is that your baby

should have at least one wet and

114

: 00:04:34

one dirty diaper per day of life.

115

: 00:04:36

So on day three, they should have

at least three wet diapers and

116

: 00:04:40

at least three dirty diapers.

117

: 00:04:41

And that's how we know that baby is

getting enough or that's kind of a rough.

118

: 00:04:45

Estimate to know that

baby is getting enough.

119

: 00:04:47

For most families, they're usually

checked in on by their midwife if they

120

: 00:04:50

had an out of hospital birth or they

have a pediatrician visit set up pretty

121

: 00:04:54

quickly after they're discharged from the

hospital just to monitor these things.

122

: 00:04:58

And if some babies lose a

lot of weight, then typically

123

: 00:05:01

there's talk of supplementation.

124

: 00:05:03

Hopefully the pediatrician is suggesting

a lactation visit as well, just to

125

: 00:05:07

make sure things are all going well.

126

: 00:05:09

And as far as what I've

been seeing lately.

127

: 00:05:11

It's actually been a mix of

both, which is interesting.

128

: 00:05:14

I've definitely had some moms who, again,

they had friends who struggled with milk

129

: 00:05:18

supply or they struggled their first time.

130

: 00:05:20

And so I've had clients who will

pump after every single feeding.

131

: 00:05:24

They are nursing their

baby who's growing like.

132

: 00:05:27

Perfectly.

133

: 00:05:28

Mm-hmm.

134

: 00:05:28

And they're storing away all

of this extra milk and extra

135

: 00:05:32

30 ounces or something per day.

136

: 00:05:34

But that also means that if, for

whatever reason, your baby doesn't

137

: 00:05:38

drain you effectively mm-hmm.

138

: 00:05:39

It's important that you pump

to keep the milk moving.

139

: 00:05:42

And then it's one of

those things where if.

140

: 00:05:44

You're more prone to things like clogged

milk, ducks, mastitis, some of those

141

: 00:05:48

negative things that can come with

breastfeeding, and then if you feel like

142

: 00:05:52

your baby is not eating frequently enough,

, you're gonna watch for those diapers.

143

: 00:05:56

You're also gonna make sure that

they're not eating too frequently.

144

: 00:06:00

There is a good amount of cluster

feeding and things like that that

145

: 00:06:03

happen in the first week of life.

146

: 00:06:05

But if your baby just truly never

seems satisfied, if they want to eat.

147

: 00:06:09

Very, very quickly if you can

tell that their diapers are

148

: 00:06:12

not as full as they used to be.

149

: 00:06:14

These are all signs that maybe

something is going on with milk

150

: 00:06:16

supply or potentially even transfer.

151

: 00:06:18

Mm-hmm.

152

: 00:06:18

Kelsy: I like all the

objective measures too.

153

: 00:06:20

Yes.

154

: 00:06:20

Because I feel like that helps to Yes.

155

: 00:06:21

To clear up some of the confusion.

156

: 00:06:23

For sure.

157

: 00:06:23

So that's awesome.

158

: 00:06:24

We'll talk about some of that

stuff definitely later on.

159

: 00:06:26

I wanna also ask, I know there's so

much that changes with our bodies

160

: 00:06:30

during pregnancy and postpartum.

161

: 00:06:31

Oh yeah.

162

: 00:06:31

So let's.

163

: 00:06:32

Zoom in on breastfeeding, specifically on

our bodies preparing for breastfeeding.

164

: 00:06:36

What are some things that might

surprise us as women that happen to our

165

: 00:06:39

bodies to prepare for breastfeeding?

166

: 00:06:42

Sunayana: So one thing that you will

definitely notice is that your breasts

167

: 00:06:46

will get bigger, they'll get larger.

168

: 00:06:48

It might happen in the first trimester.

169

: 00:06:50

It might happen throughout the pregnancy,

but they will definitely get larger.

170

: 00:06:53

Your areola and your

nipples will get darker.

171

: 00:06:56

Your nipples may become more everted

or they may become more sensitive.

172

: 00:07:00

So it's like if the towel brushes up

against you after a shower that all of a

173

: 00:07:04

sudden you're like, whoa, that's a lot.

174

: 00:07:06

And so these are all changes that your

body is going through in order to start

175

: 00:07:10

the process of making milk and to be

able to feed your baby once they're here.

176

: 00:07:14

One that I think a lot of people

don't realize is on the areola.

177

: 00:07:18

There are little bumps on there, and

those are called Montgomery glands.

178

: 00:07:21

And we all have them, but they

become very, very pronounced

179

: 00:07:25

during pregnancy in preparation

for breastfeeding and lactation.

180

: 00:07:28

With those people don't expect that.

181

: 00:07:30

So during prenatal visits, I will, you

know, I'll have a mom that's like my

182

: 00:07:33

breast is doing something really weird.

183

: 00:07:35

Can we look at it?

184

: 00:07:36

And I was like, yeah, absolutely.

185

: 00:07:37

Whatever you're comfortable with.

186

: 00:07:38

So we'll look at it.

187

: 00:07:39

And they're like, I have these bumps.

188

: 00:07:40

And so we talk about Montgomery glands and

their function and why they're important.

189

: 00:07:44

And so , it's just a lot of these

little changes, but other things that

190

: 00:07:47

can definitely happen during pregnancy.

191

: 00:07:49

Not specific to breastfeeding and

lactation, but I know for me, my

192

: 00:07:53

hair texture completely changed.

193

: 00:07:54

Okay.

194

: 00:07:54

Yeah, it got really wavy.

195

: 00:07:56

And then also my shoe size changed.

196

: 00:07:59

I went up like a half size and everything,

and so I have a whole bunch of shoes that

197

: 00:08:02

are expensive, but I can't wear anymore.

198

: 00:08:04

Yeah.

199

: 00:08:05

Yeah.

200

: 00:08:05

Kelsy: My mom said her hair got

curly immediately after pregnancy.

201

: 00:08:08

Isn't that was straight hair.

202

: 00:08:09

Yes.

203

: 00:08:09

She had the same like wavy,

different texture, all of it.

204

: 00:08:11

Yes, exactly.

205

: 00:08:12

Yeah.

206

: 00:08:12

It's just all these

things that surprise you.

207

: 00:08:14

And I feel like with, when it comes to

lactation and breastfeeding and stuff,

208

: 00:08:16

it's like anything additional that's like.

209

: 00:08:19

Out of the ordinary.

210

: 00:08:20

It's like, oh, oh gosh, what is this?

211

: 00:08:22

So, yes, exactly.

212

: 00:08:22

So I like knowing some of these

things before, before we get there.

213

: 00:08:25

Sunayana: For sure.

214

: 00:08:26

So

215

: 00:08:26

Kelsy: Let's talk a little bit about

other forms of feeding first before we

216

: 00:08:29

get into some of the more in depth things

that you help clients with specifically.

217

: 00:08:33

But when it comes to just.

218

: 00:08:35

Options for feeding.

219

: 00:08:36

I know you probably work with a lot of

moms who choose to breastfeed and families

220

: 00:08:40

who choose to breastfeed, but for those

who either are unable to breastfeed

221

: 00:08:44

or choose not to breastfeed, what are

some of the other options to look into?

222

: 00:08:46

Yeah, and what are some of the

considerations they might need

223

: 00:08:49

to make within their families to.

224

: 00:08:50

Choose different options, yeah,

225

: 00:08:52

Sunayana: that's a great question.

226

: 00:08:53

So I know that there's a huge thought

out there and I guess misconception

227

: 00:08:57

too where lactation consultants

are gonna force you to breastfeed.

228

: 00:09:01

You're gonna have to put your baby

to your body and directly feed them,

229

: 00:09:04

and that's the only way to do it.

230

: 00:09:06

Yes, there, there are definitely some

lactation consultants out there like

231

: 00:09:09

that, but that's not what we're like here.

232

: 00:09:10

So our job is to help parents meet their

goals, even if those change a million

233

: 00:09:15

times from one visit to the next.

234

: 00:09:17

So initially, sometimes we'll have

parents that are like, well, I only

235

: 00:09:20

want to put my baby to the breast, and

then I wanna introduce bottles at some

236

: 00:09:24

point because I'm going back to work.

237

: 00:09:26

Great, we can do that.

238

: 00:09:27

And then , for, I would say.

239

: 00:09:29

Most of the clients I work

with, that is the goal.

240

: 00:09:31

Nobody wants to, or very rarely,

I don't wanna say nobody 'cause

241

: 00:09:34

I do have a couple clients.

242

: 00:09:35

Mm-hmm.

243

: 00:09:36

Very rarely do I work with a

family that's like, I only want

244

: 00:09:38

to nurse my baby at breast.

245

: 00:09:40

I don't wanna use bottles.

246

: 00:09:42

I don't wanna have to worry about pumping.

247

: 00:09:43

And yeah, that's fine.

248

: 00:09:45

We can talk about that too.

249

: 00:09:46

But in the situations where parents

are having a really hard time producing

250

: 00:09:49

milk or whether they're not getting

as much sleep and it's starting to

251

: 00:09:52

affect their mental health and all

of that, that's when it's like,

252

: 00:09:55

okay, well let's talk about pumping a

little bit sooner than we had planned.

253

: 00:09:59

This way you can get more rest.

254

: 00:10:01

Your partner can give a bottle and you can

get a slightly longer stretch of sleep.

255

: 00:10:05

So we definitely work with families

that have to use formula, or another

256

: 00:10:09

form of nutrition for their baby.

257

: 00:10:11

Whether it's formula, whether

it's donor milk whatever that is,

258

: 00:10:14

we can work with you to do that.

259

: 00:10:15

And so even if you are not

producing enough, breastfeeding

260

: 00:10:19

isn't all or nothing.

261

: 00:10:20

This is a hill I will die on.

262

: 00:10:22

I will defend it.

263

: 00:10:23

But it can look a million

different ways to people.

264

: 00:10:25

And it's all about knowing

that you have options.

265

: 00:10:28

Also, some of the families I work

with start off and they're like

266

: 00:10:31

real gung-ho about breastfeeding.

267

: 00:10:32

Mm-hmm.

268

: 00:10:32

They really wanna

breastfeed and that's it.

269

: 00:10:34

They, it's almost like they

have tunnel vision where they're

270

: 00:10:36

focusing just on the one thing, but.

271

: 00:10:39

If the birth doesn't go as planned,

if their body isn't doing what we need

272

: 00:10:42

it to do in order to make a full milk

supply, obviously we have to pivot.

273

: 00:10:46

But there's a lot of grief that

comes along with that of what

274

: 00:10:48

you envision the journey looking

like versus what it looks like.

275

: 00:10:51

And so, I lovingly say that a lot of

times our initial visits, they're like.

276

: 00:10:56

30%,, lactation information.

277

: 00:10:57

Mm-hmm.

278

: 00:10:58

But 70% just holding space and

processing a lot of these changes

279

: 00:11:02

that their family has been through

in a very, very short period of time.

280

: 00:11:04

So, we do a good amount

of counseling as well.

281

: 00:11:08

Obviously within our scope, if someone

is definitely having some struggles with

282

: 00:11:11

PMAS, we refer on, thankfully Austin is

very resource rich in that department.

283

: 00:11:16

Mm-hmm.

284

: 00:11:17

And so, we're able to refer on, but a lot

of the struggles of, is it the baby blues?

285

: 00:11:21

Is it just that I'm not getting

sleep consistently anymore?

286

: 00:11:23

Is it that there's a tiny human on

me and I'm healing from you know,

287

: 00:11:27

major surgery if it's a C-section?

288

: 00:11:28

So all of those things definitely factor

into the way that we practice here.

289

: 00:11:32

It's more than milk and make

sure that families feel supported

290

: 00:11:36

and empowered to make the best

decisions for, for themselves.

291

: 00:11:39

And to get to the other

part of your question

292

: 00:11:41

one of the considerations that

, parents should think about before

293

: 00:11:44

their baby is here is definitely

figuring out what their goal is.

294

: 00:11:47

If their long-term goal is to

feed baby for six months, great,

295

: 00:11:51

we can definitely achieve that.

296

: 00:11:52

Some of the clients I work

with will even be like.

297

: 00:11:55

I wanna get to a year, but when

you're holding, a couple day

298

: 00:11:58

old baby that seems so far away.

299

: 00:12:00

So we talk a lot about setting lots of

mini goals of like, okay, let's get to a

300

: 00:12:04

month and then let's get to three months.

301

: 00:12:06

And then when you're at three

months, you're almost at six months.

302

: 00:12:08

And then by the time you get to six

or nine months, most parents are like,

303

: 00:12:11

well, this isn't that hard anymore.

304

: 00:12:12

It just, it, for most

families, it does become a lot.

305

: 00:12:15

Mm.

306

: 00:12:16

Easier than having to pump or

having to mix up bottles of formula.

307

: 00:12:19

But I will say for some

families it just doesn't.

308

: 00:12:22

And that's okay.

309

: 00:12:22

Let's talk about how to

wean safely and all of that.

310

: 00:12:25

But I would say setting a goal is a

great way to do it and also kind of

311

: 00:12:28

figure out if things don't go the

way that we want to with feeding.

312

: 00:12:32

How do you feel about using formula?

313

: 00:12:34

Are you okay with it?

314

: 00:12:35

Do you have a friend that's

also making milk that you're

315

: 00:12:38

comfortable getting donor milk from?

316

: 00:12:40

Especially if they're pumping a little

bit extra, you can give that to your

317

: 00:12:43

baby if that's something that you and

your partner are comfortable with.

318

: 00:12:45

So all of these things can definitely

be talked about prior to baby

319

: 00:12:49

being here and prior to the birth,

and that will definitely help.

320

: 00:12:52

Take a lot of pressure off on the

other side of the birth, just in case

321

: 00:12:55

things don't go the way that we want.

322

: 00:12:57

Kelsy: I love how you mentioned how

holistic of an approach it is too, where

323

: 00:13:00

it's not just like, okay, feeding, we're

only strictly looking at feeding, but.

324

: 00:13:04

I hear from so many patients and so

many moms that it really is an emotional

325

: 00:13:07

journey and even choosing to breastfeed

or choosing not to breastfeed or making

326

: 00:13:11

that decision when you want to stop

breastfeeding because it's just getting

327

: 00:13:15

too challenging or too difficult.

328

: 00:13:16

Or like you said, you have this

picture in your head of, okay, I am

329

: 00:13:20

gonna be a breastfeeding mom, and

I've had a, a friend, her sister got

330

: 00:13:23

diagnosed with cancer throughout Oh no.

331

: 00:13:25

So she was gonna have to go through chemo

and wasn't gonna be able to breastfeed.

332

: 00:13:28

Yes.

333

: 00:13:28

So even shifting that perspective,

I guess, , and that vision of

334

: 00:13:31

what you thought , it would look

like to, to feed your child.

335

: 00:13:34

I know it could be so,

so emotional for people.

336

: 00:13:36

Very much so.

337

: 00:13:36

I love that you guys approach it from this

super well-rounded, holistic standpoint.

338

: 00:13:41

And like you said, not feel forced

one way or the other, but just

339

: 00:13:44

say, okay, hey, what are your goals

and , let me work with you, with my

340

: 00:13:48

expertise to, to help you get there.

341

: 00:13:50

Exactly.

342

: 00:13:50

Sunayana: Exactly.

343

: 00:13:51

That's, that's a hundred percent it.

344

: 00:13:52

The goal here, if.

345

: 00:13:54

If I had to summarize our practice

in three words, it would be

346

: 00:13:57

inform, support, and empower.

347

: 00:13:59

Mm-hmm.

348

: 00:13:59

Because we want to inform parents

to make sure that , they know

349

: 00:14:02

what all their options are.

350

: 00:14:03

We want to support them with whatever

option that they choose, and then we

351

: 00:14:07

wanna empower them to make the best

options for their families or make the

352

: 00:14:10

best decisions for their families too.

353

: 00:14:12

Kelsy: Totally.

354

: 00:14:12

So let's zoom in on the

pumping specifically.

355

: 00:14:14

Yeah.

356

: 00:14:14

'cause I have a lot of new moms.

357

: 00:14:16

That was one of the questions they asked

was what to look for in a pump or what?

358

: 00:14:20

To even think about because it

could be very overwhelming too.

359

: 00:14:22

Yeah.

360

: 00:14:23

Sunayana: And I think too, now that

insurance providers are covering a

361

: 00:14:27

lot of breast pumps, this is awesome.

362

: 00:14:29

This is great.

363

: 00:14:30

But now it's almost like

there's too many to choose from.

364

: 00:14:33

Wow.

365

: 00:14:33

And yeah.

366

: 00:14:34

A lot of times this is something

that will go over at a prenatal

367

: 00:14:37

visit, especially if a parent

hasn't chosen their breast pump yet.

368

: 00:14:40

So they'll bring in a list

from their insurance provider.

369

: 00:14:43

And so we'll talk about, okay,

well, are you returning to work?

370

: 00:14:46

What kind of job do you have?

371

: 00:14:47

Are you able to go and take breaks

or do, are you a teacher or a

372

: 00:14:51

hairstylist or a nurse or a doctor

where you're not necessarily able

373

: 00:14:54

to take those nice set breaks?

374

: 00:14:57

A lot of that will definitely

factor into the pump decision.

375

: 00:15:00

I do highly recommend though, that

families get a pump that can plug

376

: 00:15:04

into the wall a more traditional one.

377

: 00:15:06

A friend of mine that's also

she's studying to be an I-B-C-L-C,

378

: 00:15:09

she told me that she calls

those types of breast pumps.

379

: 00:15:12

She's like, I call them the

Toyota Corolla of breast pumps.

380

: 00:15:15

Like it's not fancy.

381

: 00:15:16

Reliable.

382

: 00:15:16

Reliable, exactly.

383

: 00:15:17

It's not fancy.

384

: 00:15:18

It doesn't have all the bells and

whistles, but it'll get the job done.

385

: 00:15:22

Mm-hmm.

386

: 00:15:22

And so to me, those are a lot of this

spectra pumps and things like that

387

: 00:15:26

where they are covered by insurance.

388

: 00:15:28

But you know, they're not, they're

not, I mean, nothing about.

389

: 00:15:30

Pumping is glamorous, but they just

390

: 00:15:32

Kelsy: romanticized pumping.

391

: 00:15:34

I know,

392

: 00:15:34

Sunayana: right?

393

: 00:15:34

Exactly.

394

: 00:15:35

Well, I don't know.

395

: 00:15:36

In some of these pictures

I'm like, really?

396

: 00:15:38

But you're in full glam.

397

: 00:15:39

And anyway, that's, that's

not what most of us look like.

398

: 00:15:41

Kelsy: Sequined, sequined, breast pump.

399

: 00:15:43

Sunayana: Right.

400

: 00:15:43

Exactly.

401

: 00:15:44

Exactly.

402

: 00:15:45

But no, I would.

403

: 00:15:46

Say just, you know, it's, it's

gonna definitely get the job done.

404

: 00:15:49

And so in the early days, it's

important to make sure that the

405

: 00:15:53

stimulations of your breasts or your

chest are effective and consistent.

406

: 00:15:57

And so oftentimes we'll rely on those

pumps, you know, the more traditional

407

: 00:16:01

plug into the wall sort of pump

for the first few weeks of life.

408

: 00:16:05

And then once . breastfeeding

has been established and

409

: 00:16:08

milk supply is established.

410

: 00:16:09

Well, I have clients that really want to

look into getting a wearable or a more

411

: 00:16:13

portable pump, and so those are great.

412

: 00:16:15

They've taken a huge leap in

the right direction, but there's

413

: 00:16:18

still several steps to go.

414

: 00:16:20

So I found that for clients who

are larger chested, they may have

415

: 00:16:23

trouble finding a pump that fits them

effectively, that's wearable or portable.

416

: 00:16:27

I've had other clients who just cannot

get anything out with one of those pumps.

417

: 00:16:32

And sometimes that has to do with the

strength of the pump motor or that

418

: 00:16:35

has to do with the settings that are

programmed into the pump, and it's

419

: 00:16:39

just not what this person needs.

420

: 00:16:40

And so, having , that more traditional

pump , is really important.

421

: 00:16:44

And I think once milk supply has been

established, then yes, absolutely.

422

: 00:16:47

, We can talk about how to . Pump while

you're doing chart notes if you're

423

: 00:16:51

a nurse or something like that.

424

: 00:16:52

Kelsy: And on the same vein, what about

what to look for with formula for,

425

: 00:16:56

for families who are wanting to either

supplement or formula feed or have

426

: 00:16:59

to by . Just default if they, are go

undergoing chemo or something like that.

427

: 00:17:03

Exactly.

428

: 00:17:04

Yeah.

429

: 00:17:04

Yeah.

430

: 00:17:04

Sunayana: So I would definitely

say to talk to your partner

431

: 00:17:08

and decide what's important.

432

: 00:17:09

So there's a lot of formula out there.

433

: 00:17:11

There's ready to feed, there's

powder, there's ones that are

434

: 00:17:15

European formulations, there's ones

that are American formulations.

435

: 00:17:18

It, it can get really

overwhelming with that too.

436

: 00:17:21

So it's really important for me to

ask clients who have to consider

437

: 00:17:25

formula or have questions on formula.

438

: 00:17:27

What is important to you and your partner?

439

: 00:17:28

Are you very health conscious?

440

: 00:17:30

, Do you want to make sure that you're

feeding your baby a formula that doesn't

441

: 00:17:34

have high fructose corn syrup in it, or

that has the least amount of palm oils?

442

: 00:17:38

Things like that.

443

: 00:17:39

Some of the families are like, that's

really not something I've thought about.

444

: 00:17:42

And honestly, for right

now, convenience is key.

445

: 00:17:45

It's like, okay, great, well then

let's talk about the ready to

446

: 00:17:48

feed , in,, the small two ounce

canisters or the bigger bottles.

447

: 00:17:51

Whereas others are like, no,

this is really important.

448

: 00:17:53

I wanna make sure my baby's getting

the cleanest formula on the market.

449

: 00:17:57

I wanna talk about alternatives

to cow's milk based formulas and

450

: 00:18:00

they have those out there now.

451

: 00:18:01

So, I feel like with formula.

452

: 00:18:03

Feeding and discussion

and preparation too.

453

: 00:18:06

That's a whole, I mean, I could

talk for 90 minutes about that.

454

: 00:18:09

Yes, yes.

455

: 00:18:09

On, in and of itself.

456

: 00:18:10

So it's one of those things where,

like as lactation consultants, we don't

457

: 00:18:14

necessarily learn specifically about

it, but when we're seeing patients,

458

: 00:18:17

especially in an outpatient setting,

where we're able to spend a lot of time

459

: 00:18:21

with them and speak to them about what

their goals are it's important to have.

460

: 00:18:25

At least a general understanding

of the different types of formulas.

461

: 00:18:29

So of course you've got the ones that you

can go to Target or HEB and buy but then

462

: 00:18:32

you've also got specialized formulas for

babies that may have trouble breaking

463

: 00:18:36

down the cow's milk protein or they just

have more sensitive tummies, or they

464

: 00:18:39

were born preterm or something like that.

465

: 00:18:41

So.

466

: 00:18:42

That again, that's a

whole different category.

467

: 00:18:44

Some of those are prescription only,

others you can still get in stores.

468

: 00:18:47

And so this is one of those

conversations where I'm like, okay,

469

: 00:18:50

well these are my recommendations.

470

: 00:18:52

Talk to your pediatrician and make

sure that they , agree with that.

471

: 00:18:55

Mm-hmm.

472

: 00:18:56

And then I say, you know,

go forth and feed your baby.

473

: 00:18:58

Yeah.

474

: 00:18:59

Mm-hmm.

475

: 00:18:59

Kelsy: I.

476

: 00:19:00

Guess a big theme I'm getting from

this conversation is that there are

477

: 00:19:04

a lot of different options and it can

be very overwhelming and there Yes.

478

: 00:19:09

You know, families can probably swing

from either side of the extremes.

479

: 00:19:12

Yes.

480

: 00:19:13

But having someone like you come in

and help who has this well-rounded,,

481

: 00:19:17

knowledge of all of these variables,

that all of the factors to think of

482

: 00:19:21

can help provide clarity for families.

483

: 00:19:24

And goal set , and have a

structure on how to make decisions.

484

: 00:19:27

Yes.

485

: 00:19:27

In this like super complex

and challenging phase Yes.

486

: 00:19:31

Of postpartum , and feeding in general.

487

: 00:19:33

Exactly.

488

: 00:19:34

So I am, I'm seeing that , the pendulum

can shift , and you're the one that

489

: 00:19:37

helps to guide it and straighten

the path a little bit, which I love.

490

: 00:19:40

Sunayana: Exactly.

491

: 00:19:40

Exactly.

492

: 00:19:41

Yeah.

493

: 00:19:41

And ,, I tell clients, I'm like, my job

as a lactation consultant is not to force

494

: 00:19:45

you to feed your baby in a certain way.

495

: 00:19:47

It's to lay out all the options

for you and then support whatever

496

: 00:19:50

decision is best for you.

497

: 00:19:51

For you and your family even if that

means stopping breastfeeding and moving

498

: 00:19:54

to formula or,, whatever it looks like.

499

: 00:19:56

Kelsy: Right?

500

: 00:19:56

Totally.

501

: 00:19:57

So let's zoom in on some of

the common challenges you face.

502

: 00:20:00

Yeah.

503

: 00:20:00

'cause two of the most common questions I

got were around milk supply, as you said.

504

: 00:20:04

Yes.

505

: 00:20:04

And then also latching.

506

: 00:20:05

So let's.

507

: 00:20:06

Start, I guess, a little higher level when

it comes to breastfeeding in particular,

508

: 00:20:10

and talk about what does a mom need

to think about when fueling herself

509

: 00:20:16

in order to properly fuel her baby?

510

: 00:20:18

Sunayana: That is a great question.

511

: 00:20:19

So that's a question I get a

lot , is there special diet

512

: 00:20:22

that I should be eating?

513

: 00:20:23

So ideally, yes, you do wanna

have extra protein in there.

514

: 00:20:27

, 25 grams higher than somebody

that's not lactating.

515

: 00:20:29

Mm-hmm.

516

: 00:20:30

Mm-hmm.

517

: 00:20:30

So it's definitely important

to have extra protein.

518

: 00:20:32

In general.

519

: 00:20:33

You do need to consume about 500 extra

calories for the moms once they get their

520

: 00:20:38

clearance to go back and work out or to.

521

: 00:20:41

Whatever they wanna do.

522

: 00:20:42

We do talk about making sure that

you don't dip under: 1800

523

: 00:20:46

because at that point it could

potentially affect the nutritional

524

: 00:20:50

content of your milk and it could

potentially affect milk supply as well.

525

: 00:20:54

But in general, you can

eat whatever you want.

526

: 00:20:56

If you have been craving a

Jimmy John's sandwich, go eat

527

: 00:20:59

that Jimmy John's sandwich.

528

: 00:21:00

Go have your sushi roll, you

know, whatever it is that you

529

: 00:21:03

want to eat, you absolutely can't.

530

: 00:21:05

There are some babies in some families

I've worked with where the baby has a

531

: 00:21:09

cow's milk protein allergy, and we usually

see that with real funky diapers of

532

: 00:21:13

things that are affecting baby's weight

gain and , their disposition as well.

533

: 00:21:17

And so in those situations,

sometimes we'll talk about.

534

: 00:21:20

An elimination diet or sometimes I will

pair them with a nutritionist that can

535

: 00:21:25

help them come up with meal plans that

are safe for them to eat and help them

536

: 00:21:28

feel full, but also make sure that

their baby is not experiencing gi upset.

537

: 00:21:32

So the nice thing about, , being in

this community and doing what I've

538

: 00:21:37

done for as long as I have, is I've

made some really great connections

539

: 00:21:39

with other providers and so.

540

: 00:21:41

I know what I know, but I

also know what I don't know.

541

: 00:21:43

And so, I, my usual answer to to

families is like, you know what?

542

: 00:21:47

I don't know, but I'm sure

I know someone who does.

543

: 00:21:49

So let me find out for you.

544

: 00:21:50

We'll get into that.

545

: 00:21:50

Totally.

546

: 00:21:51

Yeah, exactly.

547

: 00:21:51

Kelsy: So what can actually

affect our supply levels?

548

: 00:21:54

What are some of the things,

I know you mentioned sleep.

549

: 00:21:56

Yes.

550

: 00:21:56

And it can be different baby to baby.

551

: 00:21:58

So what, what all goes into.

552

: 00:22:01

Our natural body's

ability to produce milk.

553

: 00:22:04

Sunayana: Yeah.

554

: 00:22:04

So I'm gonna get a little

sciencey and geeky on you.

555

: 00:22:07

Yes.

556

: 00:22:07

I love it.

557

: 00:22:07

So for the first couple of weeks

of your baby's life, your milk

558

: 00:22:11

supply is all hormonally driven.

559

: 00:22:13

It's all endocrine driven prolactin,

which is the milk making hormone that is.

560

: 00:22:16

Sky high after a baby has been born

and the placenta has been delivered.

561

: 00:22:20

And then estrogen and progesterone

are pretty suppressed by prolactin.

562

: 00:22:24

Prolactin and estrogen work in opposition.

563

: 00:22:26

So when one is high, the other is low.

564

: 00:22:28

However, as your milk volume continues

to regulate throughout your breastfeeding

565

: 00:22:31

journey it's one of those things

where it's important to know that

566

: 00:22:34

at some point your milk supply goes

from endocrine driven to baby driven.

567

: 00:22:39

So it's really important to make sure

that even in the early days, your.

568

: 00:22:43

Hitting eight feedings or eight

breast stimulations per day, you're

569

: 00:22:47

making sure that you're letting a

baby kind of drain one side fully

570

: 00:22:51

before moving them onto the other.

571

: 00:22:53

You're making sure that if your baby

gets a bottle for whatever reason you're

572

: 00:22:56

pumping in place to create that demand.

573

: 00:22:58

And I would say at around the four

to six week mark really flips from.

574

: 00:23:03

Endocrine driven to demand and supply

driven, where if you are creating

575

: 00:23:07

those effective stimulations throughout

the day, your body should continue

576

: 00:23:11

to produce milk at the same rate.

577

: 00:23:13

Kelsy: So in those early days,

do you have tips and tricks

578

: 00:23:16

when it is endocrine driven?

579

: 00:23:17

Sunayana: That is, again, it just depends

on person to person, but I would say

580

: 00:23:20

for maybe the parent that had a really

rough birth and , they need to focus

581

: 00:23:25

on recovery after having their baby.

582

: 00:23:27

What that can look like is when they

feel up to it enough, is we will

583

: 00:23:30

have them either focus on nursing,

baby and nursing for many feeds.

584

: 00:23:34

Sometimes we'll have them pump

after feeds to again create that

585

: 00:23:38

stimulation and to create that demand.

586

: 00:23:40

And the goal is that their

body will create that supply.

587

: 00:23:43

Yeah, exactly.

588

: 00:23:45

Kelsy: So it's not that you can't pump

in those first few weeks because it is

589

: 00:23:49

endocrine driven, but it, it's about.

590

: 00:23:50

Creating that stimulus, I guess, or

helping to create that stimulus correct.

591

: 00:23:53

To, to get that shift

to be more baby driven.

592

: 00:23:56

Sunayana: Correct.

593

: 00:23:56

And it's something that happens

naturally over time too.

594

: 00:23:59

Our bodies just sort of know what to do.

595

: 00:24:01

Mm-hmm.

596

: 00:24:01

Which is kind of incredible.

597

: 00:24:02

But it does shift around

the four to six week mark.

598

: 00:24:05

But I do like to say that in those early

weeks, it's really important to make sure

599

: 00:24:09

that you're stim stimulating your breasts

frequently and effectively, because

600

: 00:24:13

really what you're doing in those early

601

: 00:24:14

. Weeks is laying down the

groundwork for a long term and

602

: 00:24:17

hopefully healthy milk supply.

603

: 00:24:19

Kelsy: So what are your thoughts

on different lactation, I guess

604

: 00:24:22

supplementation is what I'll call

it, but I see a lot of like lactation

605

: 00:24:25

cookies or different things that I don't

know what they put in them to help.

606

: 00:24:29

Yeah.

607

: 00:24:29

But what are your thoughts

on those sorts of things?

608

: 00:24:31

So

609

: 00:24:31

Sunayana: I think that those, I

have a lot of thoughts on this.

610

: 00:24:34

Yes, I'm gonna make some people

mad with this, but I feel like,

611

: 00:24:38

I feel like there are brands out

there who have just realized that.

612

: 00:24:42

Nursing moms and, and breastfeeding

parents are a whole untapped market.

613

: 00:24:46

Mm-hmm.

614

: 00:24:46

And so now there's all kinds of

stuff out there that promises

615

: 00:24:49

to boost your milk supply.

616

: 00:24:50

Okay.

617

: 00:24:50

Does it really boost your milk supply?

618

: 00:24:52

Maybe.

619

: 00:24:53

I will say though, especially

with the cookies and the bites and

620

: 00:24:56

things like that, with those, you

have to consume a certain amount

621

: 00:24:59

of them, usually a lot of them.

622

: 00:25:01

What they will do is they will help

keep your blood sugar up and they

623

: 00:25:04

will help keep your calorie count up.

624

: 00:25:06

And both of those things will help

out your milk supplies so , it's

625

: 00:25:09

not like you eat the cookie and all

of a sudden you're pumping gallons.

626

: 00:25:12

It's, it's gonna help you feel better.

627

: 00:25:14

It's gonna help you take care of yourself.

628

: 00:25:15

Because as a new mom, it's

very, very difficult to make

629

: 00:25:18

sure that you're eating meals.

630

: 00:25:19

So if a client has a tray of cookies

that someone bought her or baked for

631

: 00:25:23

her, and she leaves them out on her

kitchen counter, if she pops one or two

632

: 00:25:26

into her mouth every time she walks by.

633

: 00:25:29

That's great.

634

: 00:25:29

She's getting good food in those

cookies and bites and things do have

635

: 00:25:33

ingredients that are known to be

galactic GOs that are known to boost our

636

: 00:25:36

prolactin levels and help milk supply.

637

: 00:25:38

But like I said, I wouldn't solely rely

on those to boost your milk supply.

638

: 00:25:42

But if you want the

cookie, eat the cookie.

639

: 00:25:45

Kelsy: And if they're tasty,

if they're, if they're sweet.

640

: 00:25:46

Especially if they're tasty.

641

: 00:25:47

Exactly.

642

: 00:25:48

Yes.

643

: 00:25:48

So you mentioned too, there

was a lot of questions on

644

: 00:25:51

pumping , and feeding in general.

645

: 00:25:53

I called it like feeding

logistics I guess, where.

646

: 00:25:55

You mentioned trying to empty one

side before moving on to the other.

647

: 00:25:59

And there were a lot of questions

on that actually about Yeah.

648

: 00:26:01

When to pump and whether or not to have

baby feed one side versus the other.

649

: 00:26:05

Mm-hmm.

650

: 00:26:05

And then when to pump for that.

651

: 00:26:06

So talk through that a little bit more.

652

: 00:26:08

Sure.

653

: 00:26:08

And kinda clear up some

of my confusion and.

654

: 00:26:11

No, everyone else is confused.

655

: 00:26:12

And it's one

656

: 00:26:12

Sunayana: of those things where, again,

it's gonna vary widely from person to

657

: 00:26:15

person, but I would say in general,

we always want baby to have first St.

658

: 00:26:19

Dibs when the breast is the fullest,

when milk is gonna flow the easiest,

659

: 00:26:22

we want baby to get on there first.

660

: 00:26:24

If for whatever reason baby falls

asleep before they've gotten everything

661

: 00:26:28

that they need and we know that

they've gotten, a full feeding in.

662

: 00:26:31

That other side may be throbbing

or just,, not feeling quite so hot.

663

: 00:26:35

'cause it's so full.

664

: 00:26:36

So usually what I will have moms do is if

they can hand express or they can use a

665

: 00:26:40

manual breast pump to express to comfort.

666

: 00:26:42

Mm-hmm.

667

: 00:26:43

So we're not planning to drain the

breast, but we're just removing enough.

668

: 00:26:47

So this way we're keeping the milk

moving, we're reducing those risks

669

: 00:26:50

of clogged milk ducks and mastitis.

670

: 00:26:53

And at the next feeding you're gonna

start baby on the side you didn't feed on.

671

: 00:26:56

So that.

672

: 00:26:57

Hopefully by the end of the day, both

breasts will get about equal stimulation.

673

: 00:27:01

Kelsy: And why would you not?

674

: 00:27:03

This is purely curious for me,

but why would you not want to?

675

: 00:27:05

Just flip.

676

: 00:27:06

Is it because it's usually

more challenging for baby to

677

: 00:27:08

sort of like adjust position?

678

: 00:27:10

Oh, you mean for one feeding?

679

: 00:27:11

For one feeding, yeah.

680

: 00:27:12

Oh, why do you, and this might be a

very naive question for me, but No, no.

681

: 00:27:16

Sunayana: So, so you can flip.

682

: 00:27:17

Okay.

683

: 00:27:17

Okay.

684

: 00:27:17

And so I, I know a lot of moms are

told, okay, 15 minutes on each side.

685

: 00:27:22

Okay.

686

: 00:27:22

That might be helpful for the first couple

days when you have a really sleepy baby.

687

: 00:27:26

But as they start to wake up

more, you're gonna notice that

688

: 00:27:28

if baby does take 30 minutes to

feed, it's not gonna be 15 and 15.

689

: 00:27:32

Mm-hmm.

690

: 00:27:32

They might do 20 minutes on one side

and then 10 minutes on the other.

691

: 00:27:36

And so I like to call

it dinner and dessert.

692

: 00:27:38

Mm-hmm.

693

: 00:27:39

So whatever breast they're put on

first, that's the dinner breast,

694

: 00:27:41

they're gonna clean their plate.

695

: 00:27:43

They're gonna have a more active feeding.

696

: 00:27:45

On the second side is gonna be dessert.

697

: 00:27:47

And so just like we're supposed to have

a little bit of dessert that baby is

698

: 00:27:50

only gonna have a little bit from the

second breast, but you start them on

699

: 00:27:53

the dessert side at the next feeding

and then moving them over to dinner.

700

: 00:27:57

I am a big believer in always

offering both breasts at a feeding.

701

: 00:28:00

But it also depends on the baby.

702

: 00:28:02

It depends on.

703

: 00:28:03

Kind of the milk storage

capacity, which is a whole thing.

704

: 00:28:06

, It's too long to get into on this

podcast, but you can, you reach

705

: 00:28:10

out to your lactation consultant

if you have questions on that.

706

: 00:28:12

We have thoughts.

707

: 00:28:13

But yeah, it can depend

on a lot of those things.

708

: 00:28:15

And so I will say for a lot of the moms

that I work with, if they notice that

709

: 00:28:19

baby is getting really sleepy at the

breast or instead of these deep suckles,

710

: 00:28:24

they're feeling just kind of these, yeah.

711

: 00:28:25

Mm-hmm.

712

: 00:28:26

The lighter fluttery funny

713

: 00:28:27

Kelsy: rabbit, or I don't know exactly.

714

: 00:28:29

Sunayana: Yeah, I call

them flutter, supple.

715

: 00:28:30

I don't know.

716

: 00:28:31

Yeah.

717

: 00:28:31

But it's just like the slightest,

something that's usually a sign

718

: 00:28:34

that baby's got what they need

and that they're getting sleepy.

719

: 00:28:37

So when you take a baby off the breast,

I usually recommend burping a baby

720

: 00:28:41

in between just to see, , not only

if they have a burp, great, but it's

721

: 00:28:44

also a great way to stimulate them

and wake them up a little bit more.

722

: 00:28:47

And then we're gonna offer

them the second breast.

723

: 00:28:49

And if at that second breast

they're super sleepy or like barely

724

: 00:28:52

opening their mouth to latch.

725

: 00:28:54

It, they probably got what they

needed, and at that point, if that

726

: 00:28:57

breast feels really full, yes,

let's remove a little bit of milk.

727

: 00:29:00

But, and not, not so much that if

baby wakes up 10 minutes later, it's

728

: 00:29:03

like, oh crap, what do I do now?

729

: 00:29:04

Mm-hmm.

730

: 00:29:05

Kelsy: Not a full pump.

731

: 00:29:06

Correct.

732

: 00:29:06

So it's really just that like little

bit to make it more comfortable for mom.

733

: 00:29:09

Yes.

734

: 00:29:09

Not necessarily like a

full pump to, to like.

735

: 00:29:12

Store that

736

: 00:29:13

Sunayana: correct?

737

: 00:29:13

Correct.

738

: 00:29:13

Okay.

739

: 00:29:13

Yeah,

740

: 00:29:14

Kelsy: that definitely clears up some

of the . Confusion on some of the

741

: 00:29:16

questions I got, and then also just

good information for me, so thank you.

742

: 00:29:20

Do you have any tips for

just distracted children?

743

: 00:29:23

Not even sleepy, but yeah.

744

: 00:29:25

I'm thinking of one of my friends, her

daughter would only feed in one chair,

745

: 00:29:27

and I think I've mentioned this to you.

746

: 00:29:28

Yeah.

747

: 00:29:29

And would just be super distractible.

748

: 00:29:30

So what are your tips with that?

749

: 00:29:32

Sunayana: So that is a great question.

750

: 00:29:33

This usually happens around

the three to four month mark.

751

: 00:29:36

Mm-hmm.

752

: 00:29:36

And a lot of this is developmental

because babies can now see

753

: 00:29:39

further, they can turn further.

754

: 00:29:40

Like , their little brains

are just growing so much in

755

: 00:29:43

the first few months of life.

756

: 00:29:44

But now that they can see further,

they're like, well, I don't want to eat.

757

: 00:29:48

Well, why should I eat when I could

look at this dog that started barking,

758

: 00:29:51

or my dad has walked into the room.

759

: 00:29:53

And so one thing to remember

is, one, , it's a stage.

760

: 00:29:56

It's a phase.

761

: 00:29:56

It's not going to last forever.

762

: 00:29:58

And that may mean that yes.

763

: 00:30:00

You are kind of stuck in a dark

room or you do have to go away

764

: 00:30:03

from everybody to nurse, but it's

not gonna be like that forever.

765

: 00:30:06

The other thing that I really like

to do is have moms wear a silicone

766

: 00:30:11

teething necklace or a nursing necklace.

767

: 00:30:13

, It's something to give their babies

something to fiddle with, but still

768

: 00:30:16

keep their attention at chest.

769

: 00:30:18

And so all of that can definitely help.

770

: 00:30:20

I know, and it depends child to child,

because with my oldest , he could care

771

: 00:30:24

less what was going on around him.

772

: 00:30:25

He was focused on eating.

773

: 00:30:26

Whereas my second one was like if, I don't

know, if there was a breeze, he'd pop

774

: 00:30:30

off and want to see what was going on.

775

: 00:30:32

So I got real familiar with all the

nursing rooms in Austin or around

776

: 00:30:36

town of where I could go and sit

in a ,, slightly less destructive.

777

: 00:30:40

Environment.

778

: 00:30:40

So for him to eat.

779

: 00:30:41

So it's one of those things where

you get really good at trying

780

: 00:30:45

to figure out nursing in your

car or, okay, I'm at Target.

781

: 00:30:48

I'm gonna go ask for a fitting room

and I'm just gonna nurse real quick.

782

: 00:30:51

And it's one of those things

too, with distracted babies.

783

: 00:30:53

They may not take a full feeding

while you're out and about.

784

: 00:30:56

They'll just take enough

to not feel hungry.

785

: 00:30:57

But then when they're home and kind

of back in their same old environment,

786

: 00:31:01

quote unquote, they will probably

have a really good feeding to make

787

: 00:31:04

up for the not so great one before.

788

: 00:31:06

Kelsy: I think even you saying what's

happening developmentally with the baby

789

: 00:31:09

will help give people grace with it.

790

: 00:31:11

Like just give themselves grace

for where it's like, okay, for

791

: 00:31:13

Sunayana: sure.

792

: 00:31:13

They

793

: 00:31:14

Kelsy: can look at it a little

bit more positively, like,

794

: 00:31:15

okay, my baby's learning.

795

: 00:31:16

You know?

796

: 00:31:16

Yes.

797

: 00:31:16

Look at, look at all that they're

absorbing , and it's okay to

798

: 00:31:20

have a little bit of frustration

'cause I know that would help.

799

: 00:31:22

Me, I think just understanding

what's happening to them develop.

800

: 00:31:24

Very much

801

: 00:31:25

Sunayana: so.

802

: 00:31:26

Yeah, I know that helped me a lot too.

803

: 00:31:28

There's an app that I love.

804

: 00:31:29

It's called the Wonder Weeks app.

805

: 00:31:31

I don't make any money off of this.

806

: 00:31:32

It was just a sanity saver for me.

807

: 00:31:34

So I tell everybody about it.

808

: 00:31:35

But what that app will do, it's based

on a book all about infant development.

809

: 00:31:39

And it's fantastic.

810

: 00:31:40

But really who has time to read anymore?

811

: 00:31:41

Mm-hmm.

812

: 00:31:42

So,

813

: 00:31:42

Kelsy: audio books or something.

814

: 00:31:43

Audio books, yeah, that's true.

815

: 00:31:44

Sunayana: Audio books.

816

: 00:31:45

I always forget about those.

817

: 00:31:46

I, I'm a reader, but like a.

818

: 00:31:48

More traditional reader, I guess you

can say, which is fine, but really

819

: 00:31:51

there's a, the Wonder Weeks app

is based on the Wonder Weeks book.

820

: 00:31:54

And so this app will track all of

your baby's developmental milestones

821

: 00:31:57

from about five weeks all the way

into their second year of life.

822

: 00:32:01

So I think 15 to 18 months, it's not free.

823

: 00:32:04

It does cost something, but it's

available for iOS and for Android.

824

: 00:32:08

And I feel like it's money well

spent and it's well worth it because

825

: 00:32:12

not only are we learning about.

826

: 00:32:14

You know, this is what my baby is

going through, but it's gonna talk

827

: 00:32:17

about like when your baby is going

through these different developmental

828

: 00:32:20

leaps , their feeding is gonna change

and their sleep is gonna change.

829

: 00:32:23

So instead of going down that, oh my gosh,

is my baby sick rabbit hole, I literally

830

: 00:32:27

would just check the app and I'd be like.

831

: 00:32:28

Oh, okay.

832

: 00:32:29

He's gonna be able to track this month

or this week, so we're just gonna

833

: 00:32:33

have to stay close to home and not

do all the errands like I wanted to.

834

: 00:32:37

And so it definitely helped me sort

of reframe and shift the focus on,

835

: 00:32:42

instead of it being like, oh crap,

well I'm not getting any sleep

836

: 00:32:44

now to, he's not sleeping because

this is going on in his brain.

837

: 00:32:48

And so it definitely helped me give

my baby and myself a lot of grace.

838

: 00:32:52

And then also it has activities in it.

839

: 00:32:54

That you can do after your baby is

through the sleep, just to kind of

840

: 00:32:57

help foster these cool new changes.

841

: 00:32:59

Kelsy: It sounds like a

big anxiety saver for me.

842

: 00:33:01

Oh yeah.

843

: 00:33:02

Sunayana: Yes, for sure.

844

: 00:33:04

. Kelsy: Well, before we end, I wanted

to ask, I know breastfeeding is

845

: 00:33:07

just such a hard journey and can

be so just emotionally challenging.

846

: 00:33:12

Mm-hmm.

847

: 00:33:12

So how would you describe to a partner

who's supporting their partner in

848

: 00:33:16

the breastfeeding journey, what that

person's going through in order to help?

849

: 00:33:21

I guess them understand the amount of.

850

: 00:33:23

Emotions and challenges that go into it.

851

: 00:33:26

Sunayana: Yeah,, I think, you

know, partners can be supportive.

852

: 00:33:29

They can make sure that your water

bottle is filled, that you've got

853

: 00:33:31

snacks, you can eat one handed,

they're reminding you to eat.

854

: 00:33:34

It can also be very helpful for

them to just hold space and I.

855

: 00:33:37

I know every relationship is different,

but sometimes you have a partner

856

: 00:33:41

that just wants to fix whatever

the problem is, whereas sometimes I

857

: 00:33:45

just need someone to listen to me.

858

: 00:33:46

Obviously this is what's

going on in my marriage.

859

: 00:33:48

Yes.

860

: 00:33:48

But this is how we operate.

861

: 00:33:49

Me too.

862

: 00:33:50

He's a fixer.

863

: 00:33:51

And I'm like, Nope.

864

: 00:33:52

Nope.

865

: 00:33:52

I just, I need to vent.

866

: 00:33:53

I just need you to listen.

867

: 00:33:54

I don't need you to solve.

868

: 00:33:55

And so sometimes saying that and

understanding that you're all

869

: 00:33:58

your partner needs is someone

to be like, you know what?

870

: 00:34:00

It does suck right now.

871

: 00:34:01

It is terrible.

872

: 00:34:03

You're not sleeping.

873

: 00:34:04

You're having a hard time eating and

just kind of commiserating with what

874

: 00:34:07

the milk making parent is going through.

875

: 00:34:09

That can be so powerful.

876

: 00:34:10

It can really help the milk

making parent feel seen.

877

: 00:34:13

It can make them feel heard.

878

: 00:34:14

It can really validate a lot of

the concerns that they're having.,

879

: 00:34:17

Without being like, well, why

don't we just give formula?

880

: 00:34:19

Or why don't you just pump?

881

: 00:34:20

You know, yes, it's always nice to know

that that's an option, but sometimes

882

: 00:34:24

they just need someone to be like,

this really sucks, but, look at you.

883

: 00:34:28

You're going through it, you're doing it.

884

: 00:34:29

Remember we met with that lactation

consultant or so and so, gave you

885

: 00:34:33

a lactation consultant's number.

886

: 00:34:35

Why don't we reach out to them and see

if they can come and do a visit and

887

: 00:34:38

help us figure out what's going on.

888

: 00:34:39

So, I would definitely say, offer

the milk making parent a lot of grace

889

: 00:34:43

because not only are they dealing with

these physical changes, but there's

890

: 00:34:46

hormonal changes, there's night sweats,

there's all kinds of stuff that happens.

891

: 00:34:51

Again, some of the stuff we don't talk

about but a lot of times those hormonal.

892

: 00:34:55

Fluctuations can make even the most stoic.

893

: 00:34:58

Like, oh, I'd never cry, mom

weep at an SPCA commercial.

894

: 00:35:02

Right?

895

: 00:35:02

Or, or something like that.

896

: 00:35:03

So I think just remembering that your

partner's going through not just a

897

: 00:35:07

shift physically and mentally, but just

physiologically, like with motherhood,

898

: 00:35:11

it cracked me wide open and I've still

picking up the pieces almost 15 years

899

: 00:35:15

later or still trying to make heads.

900

: 00:35:17

Well, I've got a better grip on

it now, but you know what I mean?

901

: 00:35:20

There's a whole.

902

: 00:35:21

A study on something called matrescence,

which is the actual act of becoming a

903

: 00:35:24

mother and the hormonal fluctuations

that parents , and mothers , and

904

: 00:35:28

birthing parents go through.

905

: 00:35:29

It's second only to the

hormonal changes in puberty.

906

: 00:35:32

So if you think about all of those

hormones in puberty that you had

907

: 00:35:36

several years to adapt to and grow

into, you're going through those in

908

: 00:35:40

a very, very short period of time.

909

: 00:35:42

So if you're a partner listening to

this or if you wanna share something

910

: 00:35:45

with your partner, tell them to give

you grace that it's not personal, it's.

911

: 00:35:49

Rarely has anything to do with them.

912

: 00:35:51

But it's a lot of the stuff that

we as moms and as as parents,

913

: 00:35:55

are internalizing and trying to

figure out for ourselves too.

914

: 00:35:58

Kelsy: I think going through some

of this journey with my friends,

915

: 00:36:00

even not even as the supporting

partner, just as a supporting friend.

916

: 00:36:03

Yes, yes.

917

: 00:36:03

I've realized just how.

918

: 00:36:05

Important it is to just be there.

919

: 00:36:07

And like you said, not even try

and like fix, but just be there to

920

: 00:36:10

support , and hear them out , and

listen to them and help in whatever

921

: 00:36:13

way , for their environment.

922

: 00:36:15

Like you said, water and all of that.

923

: 00:36:16

But I do think that it helps to have

someone go through it so that you

924

: 00:36:22

can actually see what's happening.

925

: 00:36:23

Yes.

926

: 00:36:23

And even then you'll be able

to see, so I feel like a lot of

927

: 00:36:26

partners probably already see what

they're going through Exactly.

928

: 00:36:28

But it's nice to have this like.

929

: 00:36:30

For the partners who don't

know what to do, it's like, oh

930

: 00:36:32

my gosh, so much is changing.

931

: 00:36:33

Yes.

932

: 00:36:34

How do I help?

933

: 00:36:34

And this would be a good way

to, to help without Yeah.

934

: 00:36:37

You know, while just being

there to, to support too, so,

935

: 00:36:39

Sunayana: yeah, exactly.

936

: 00:36:40

Even if it's something little, like she's

up pumping in the middle of the night, if

937

: 00:36:44

you want to sit up with her for part of

that pump session, that would be great.

938

: 00:36:48

Or if baby gets up to feed, take the

baby, change the diaper while mom

939

: 00:36:51

gets herself all ready to feed, goes

to the restroom, all those things.

940

: 00:36:54

And then make sure her water's

full if she needs a snack in

941

: 00:36:57

the middle of the night because.

942

: 00:36:58

There's pregnancy hunger and then

there's breastfeeding hunger.

943

: 00:37:01

It's completely different.

944

: 00:37:02

It's so much more.

945

: 00:37:04

And so, just make sure she's

taking care of herself.

946

: 00:37:06

So I like to say that partners can

nurture , the milk making parent, while

947

: 00:37:10

the milk making parent nurtures the baby.

948

: 00:37:11

Kelsy: Well, Sina Weber, thank you

so much for sharing your knowledge

949

: 00:37:14

and expertise with us today.

950

: 00:37:15

I'm so grateful to have you as

part of this Women's health focused

951

: 00:37:18

podcast festival, and I know so

many people are gonna be helped by

952

: 00:37:21

your education in our chat today.

953

: 00:37:23

So thank you so, so much.

954

: 00:37:24

I'll leave all of her links below too.

955

: 00:37:27

She has great information and education

on her social media if you don't happen

956

: 00:37:31

to be in Austin, and I'm sure she would

be willing to take, we do virtual visits

957

: 00:37:34

with messages and DS and all that.

958

: 00:37:35

Exactly.

959

: 00:37:35

So I'll leave.

960

: 00:37:36

All of that below, but thank you

so much for joining us today.

961

: 00:37:39

Thank you for

962

: 00:37:39

Sunayana: having me.

963

: 00:37:40

This was awesome.

964

: 00:37:41

Kelsy: I hope you guys enjoyed this

episode and I'll see you guys again on the

965

: 00:37:44

next episode of Wellness Fixes the Pod.

966

: 00:37:46

Bye.